the Gap theory

[fayth]

do you guys believe in what the researchers are talking about that happened in between gen. 1-2
what is your thoughts on this.

[Mary O]

What researchers are you talking about? Is this a bible study group uncovering something in the aramiac or a television educational channel documentary talking about geological discoveries? Maybe something in archeology? There is geological evidence that something catastrophic happened. God's word is silent about it. The earth has been hit by meteorites and has had mega volcanic eruptions. It used to be one continent and that continent split apart. The evidence is there. I've also heard that Lucifer rebeled in this time period. As for whether you can insert all of that between Genesis 1:1-2, I just think it's a big jump in thought. The theory assumes a lot.

The word talks about God suspending the earth in space. Heaven is His throne and the earth is His footstool. It's easier for me to grasp that there are things we are not going to get because God is who He is. (I AM THAT I AM)

God bless,
Mary O.

[Scribe D'Nucov]

Mary, you said "There is geological evidence that something catastrophic happened. God's word is silent about it.

God's word is NOT silent about it. The Bible describes a "great cataclysm" in Genesis 6, 7 and 8. The Greek Word "Cataclesmos" is the word we are given that has been translated "great flood". However, it means something greater than a "flood". In fact, the bible describes something radically impacting all life on the planet.

Consider:

1. It says that "the fountains of the great deep burst open" (Genesis 7:11) This means that water burst forth in great volumes from below the surface. We know that this meant that massive geologic eruption was experienced around the globe.
2. the floodgates of the sky were opened. The rain fell upon the earth for forty days and forty nights. (Genesis 7:11) This was the first time that rain had fallen. It says "...the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground. (Genesis 2:5-6)
3. Now it says that rain fell for 40 days and 40 nights until the whole earth was covered in water. (Gen 7:17-18)
4. Then it says all life perished from the face of the earth. (Gen 7:21)
5. Then it says that the water continued to cover the earth for 150 days.
6. Finally, it says that the first time there was ever a rain bow was in (Genesis 9:12-15). God used this new event of a rainbow as a sign of his new covenant with Noah.

So, what does all that mean? Well, we have a global cataclysm, that broke up the earth, and caused huge volumes of water to flood the place. We have a change in the atmosphere - it didn't rain and didn't have rainbows, then BAM! it starts raining and the "mist" that came up from the ground is gone - now we have clouds and regular rain.

So, do we have evidence of a global cataclysm? Uh... yeah. There's a huge trench called the pacific ocean that is still unstable with terrible volcanic activity that is filled with enough water to cover the entire planet if the pacific was full. Well, do we have evidence that there was ever a breaking up of the surface that led to massive water being forced out? Uh... yeah. There's a massive scar that runs around the planet, like the stitches on a baseball. One of the main ones starts in Canada and runs all the way to the south end of South America - It's called the Rocky Mountains and the Andes - a massive chain of fractured granite.

So, do we have evidence that there was once a different atmosphere? Uh... yeah. Stuff used to grow VERY large and things (including people) used to live a very long time. After this event? Not so much. People's body chemistry worked different afterward, which is why Noah became drunk which he never had before. The change in atmosphere meant that he couldn't drink alcohol without getting intoxicated, which had not happened to him before.

So, do we have evidence that there was once a civilization here before, that's covered in water? Uh... yeah. In the Black Sea, they have discovered structures at the lowest part, so far down that they are still trying to find how to explore it. In the Mediterranean, they have discovered massive walls and structures that are still eroding from tides. Off the coast of Florida they have discovered a massive stone highway several miles long - under water - made of perfectly cut stones that weigh many tons. Off the coast of Cuba they have discovered undersea structures over 2,000 feet below the surface.

There was a global civilization before the period we call "ancient history". And it wasn't "prehistoric" as in no history and no civilization. Rather, it was a global civilization with advanced structures and technology.

All of what happened during Noah's cataclysm can explain all of the dinosaurs and fossils, all of the mammoths and all of the geologic phenomena we observe - we just have to be willing to look at the entire picture. Earth is a fractured planet and things haven't fully settled down yet - just check out Samoa and Philippines this last week.

But the whole planet tells a story of a great cataclysm which, just coincidentally, the Bible has been telling us for over 3,500 years.

[Gayla]

I think there is a very real possibility that a great period of time, could have taken place between Gen. 1+2, if so, that would account for the theory that the earth is much older than we think.

[Scribe D'Nucov]

The Gap theory was made up to appease Evolutionists. There is no linguistic evidence to support the theory in scripture.

[maya]

it really doesn't matter what happened between gen 1-2, what matters is that Jesus Christ died for our sins and saved us and we will one day go home to God and be able to ask the Creator what the real story is...

[fayth]

true, but you cant stop man's Curiosity about this (well at least not non-chirstians).

[Carla]

Hi Fayth,

You are right, we cannot stop human curiosity about this...let them search it out! But always keep in mind, that the teachings of Jesus are always for those 'who have ears to hear'..People must have a soft heart and an open mind. If someone seems more dedicated to debate and dialogue, more eager to argue then learn, then stop investing your time. Somewhere, someone else is ready to hear the Gospel...This is shown to us in scripture:
Matthew 15:14
Matthew 21:23-27
Luke 22:67-69, 23:8-9
Acts 13:46, 18:5,6

and finally:
Don't waste your breath on fools, for they will despise the wisest advice. Proverbs 23:9

Blessings, Carla

[Jonathan McLatchie]

If you want the short answer, the simple fact is that the "Gap Theory" violates virtually every principle of hermeneutics, and of sound exegesis of Scripture. While I believe that there are some sound old-earth theological models, the ‘Gap Theory’ certainly isn’t one of them.

[Carla]

Dear Fayth,

Today I found myself reading in Timothy 1:3-7 and 6:20-21.

Timothy, guard what God has entrusted to you. Avoid godless, foolish discussions with those who oppose you with their so-called knowledge. Some people have wandered from the faith by following such foolishness. May God's Grace be with you all.1 Tim 6:20-21

The context .. Timothy was sent by Paul to oppose the false teaching in Ephesus (1:3,4)

1Ti 1:3 When I left for Macedonia, I urged you to stay there in Ephesus and stop those who are teaching wrong doctrine.
1Ti 1:4 Don't let people waste time in endless speculation over myths and spiritual pedigrees. [fn] For these things only cause arguments; they don't help people live a life of faith in God. [fn]
1Ti 1:5 The purpose of my instruction is that all the Christians there would be filled with love that comes from a pure heart, a clear conscience, and sincere faith.
1Ti 1:6 But some teachers have missed this whole point. They have turned away from these things and spend their time arguing and talking foolishness.

..This letter is written by Paul to Timothy to give him practical advice on his ministry there. Can we benefit from this advice also? I believe we can. I personally believe in a literal Genesis. There are other forums here on this topic.

This is taken from my NLT Study notes:
The church at Ephesus may have been plagued by the same heresy that was threatening the church at Colosse-the teaching that to be acceptable to God, a person had to discover certain hidden knowledge and had to worship angels (Colossians 2:8,18). The false teachers were motivated by their own interests rather than Christ's. They embroiled the church in endless and irrevelant questions and controversies, taking precious time away from the study of the truth. Stay away from religious speculation and pointless theological arguments. Such exercises may seem harmless at first, but they have a way of sidetracking us from the central message of the Good News--the person and work of Jesus Christ. they expend time we should use to share the Good News with others, and they don't help people grow in the faith. Avoid anything that keeps you from doing God's work.

Many leaders and authorities today demand allegiance, some of whom would even have us turn from Christ to follow them. When they seem to know the Bible, their influence can be dangerously subtle. They are modern day false teachers. How can you recognize false teachers?
1)They teach what is contrary to the truth found in scripture.
2)They promote trivial and divisive controversies instead of helping people come to Jesus.
3)They aren't concerned about personal evidence of God's presence in their lives, spending their time on meaningless discussions instead.
4)Their motivation is to make a name for themselves.
To protect yourself from the deception of false teachers, learn what the bible teaches and remain steadfast in your faith in Christ alone.

Blessings, Carla

[Jonathan McLatchie]

Carla -

As what one might describe as a "literalist" myself, I likewise affirm a literal view of Genesis - where I disagree fundamentally with young-earth-creationism is on what the correct literal interpretation is.

I believe that God has given mankind two primary sources of revelation concerning Himself: (1) special revelation, namely His Word, and (2) general revelation, namely the created cosmos itself. God is thus to be viewed as the author of two books, the former revealing the divine-acts of God in redemptive history and the latter revealing what God did in creating, structuring and guiding the natural world. Both books are from God, and both must be treated seriously.

These books can be read and understood independently, in which case, they possess an integrity of their own that must not be undermined by using (or mis-using) one to invalidate the other. While the study of theology can legitimately lead us to bring into question certain scientific claims, a refutation of those claims must be ultimately argued on scientific grounds. In like-manner, one might be led in view of science to question certain claims made of theology, but any refutation of these claims must ultimately depend on exegetical evidence based upon sound hermeneutical principles.

The age of the earth is a fairly well-established fact, determined by application of a wide range of academic disciplines. At present, the young-earth model places a significant amount of strain on the scientific data, giving the old-earth model greater explanatory power. Furthermore, the old-earth model is not only supported by one - or even two - scientific disciplines, but a wide range, giving the old earth model greater explanatory scope.

While Richard Dawkins might remark that "Biology is the study of complicated things which give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose", I do not believe that the creationists should chime back, "Cosmology is the study of planetary bodies which give the appearance of having been created a long time ago." Such a claim would amount to the double-standard of the ages.

Just thinking.....

J

[Scribe D'Nucov]

Jonathan, the statement "The age of the earth is a fairly well-established fact, determined by application of a wide range of academic disciplines" is an opinion of the academic community which ignores evidences that contradict their theoristic models.

I understand that Dr Ross is part of that community and that he is also a Christian. However, he is one who also ignores substantial evidence to the contrary of these models. There is evidence that contradicts the Billions of years scenarios and there is plenty of emerging science that wreaks havoc on the Evolutionary theories.

For me, there is one great piece of evidence that rules out their models: none of them are in agreement. Geological evolutionary models contradict Cosmoligical evolutionary models. Cosmological evolutionary models contradict models of the science of physics and those contradict the evolutionary Biologists. Since none of them can agree, why should I abandon the clear revelation of scripture? The Bible isn't a science book, but it makes clear claims of science and history that have never been proven wrong.

Just in the field of cosmology alone there are widely ranging theories that are in radical disagreement. One group says the Big Bang can be proven. Another holds to theories of stasis and punctuated equilibrium. Then another group makes wild claims of the speed of light being static and another says the evidence "proves" an exponential decrease in the speed of light (and thereby energy and thus matter).

Science is filled with self proclaimed experts who are still groping in the dark. Einstein's theories enabled them to make quantum leaps forward in ability to observe and analyze, yet these fields of science are still infantile in that few, if any, try to evaluate a unified theory.

Since there is no unified theory that comes even close to working, I'm putting very little confidence in these people.

I'm curious what you think of the Setterfield Cosmological models and experiments. There are some fascinating things being discovered which move us far away from the standard evolutionary arguments. It appears that Setterfield may have discovered the actual mechanism for how God spoke the universe into existence.

[John Saputo]

There is much speculation on this issue but one important point that Ken Ham makes in the Answers in Genesis site is that death came into the world through Adams sin. I went to a Bible college that taught the "possiblity of a Gap as a theory" but
I no longer believe that and I do not trust dating methods as a final word on the age of Earth or the Universe.
If you read one theory by believers it is also good to read up on the alternatives. None of us were there in the beginning but God and that is why preference needs to be made for the Word of God. In the end it is God that will be vindicated not me or my opinions but it is an interesting discussion. I do agree with Scribe D'Nucov the flood was a massive catastrophe.
When the Angels fell from grace that also was a massive catastrophe but the problem is we do not know when that occured or if it happened in the same dimension of life that we call our Solar System. We only know that Lucifer got the title deed of Earth but positionally lost it though he still "governs" Earth and that there is another battle coming but He, Satan, was defeated at the bloody cross on Mt Moriah when the promised Son was sacrificed for our sins and the stain on Earth and our Solar System. The secret things belong to God. Baruch Ha Shem Yeshua Blessed is the Name of JESUS. Your Brother in the Messiah
PS Carla, you are right we should concentrate on the issues of evangelism but bringing people to Christ also means hashing out issues that undermine the faith. Example: Evolution in the sense of macro-evolution can not be true and the Bible relevant at the same time...do you see why it is important to dsicuss these issues?