How can a good God send people to Hell

[Jan]

I have friends who cannot believe in a God who sends decent people, maybe any
people, to hell.

Any ideas of what I can say?

[Jan]

Firstly, my apologies for disappearing so soon after raising the question. I am afraid I
was waylaid by a virus. Virus + Fibromyalgia can lead to long silences!

Thank you all for your excellent advice, from LTs advice to focus on the Father and not heaven or hell to Carla's and Stew's not to defend God's plan.

I am hoping and praying it is just a matter of God's timing, Stew, as these people are very dear to me. For your husband too Carla. And that whoever God chooses will listen to the promptings of the Holy Spirit and say the right thing.

God bless and thank you
Jan

[Stephen]

Dear Jan,
I took keen interest in your question and have followed this discussion intently. I too have questions in regard to hell and how it is best explained, especially to non believers.
To me the greatest theme of the bible is love. Real love. Agape love.
Maybe we might all do well to step back and try and see the big picture for a moment.
As I understand it we are all smack dab in the middle of a great controversy between God and satan. God deals with the resultant situation as he has since the dawn of time.
His purpose is to save everyone from the trap of sin and restore us to life in and with him. This is more important to me as a sinner than all the doctrine and fire and brimstone in the world.
It is all about love and how we react to it. I was not frightened into the arms of my redeemer rather I was wooed by the holy spirit and the love of a God willing to pay such a high price for me. It is this that I believe we should keep our minds and hearts focused on. Would that we never forget the awsome power of the gospel to reach mens hearts!
Yes Jan timing is indeed a factor. All in Gods good time.
I hope and pray that your virus and the resulting complications subside and pray for you a complete restoration to good health. I also pray for those close to you and that they might share in the peace that passeth understanding that you and I share.
Be especially blessed in this season of Christmas and know that you are loved both here on this site and in heaven.
In his love Stephen

[Winston James Blanke]

Amen!

[Soldier_Of_Christ]

It is out of freewill. That is part of making a choice.

How can a loving parent allow their child to go to war knowing there is a chance they might not make it back? It was the child's choice.

To be condemned, we condemn ourselves. Should a God/parent be blamed for a child who purposely disobeys and suffers great consequence? Some may say yes, although we have free will.

We have free will, and those who feel the responsibility of protecting others attempt to do so. However, man is responsible not only for himself, but for everyone around him. (I dunno why I just said this sentence, but....)

In short, here is your answer to your friends. God, is a loving good, but people misunderstand what that love is. We hold onto things we do not want to see damaged out of obsession, not of love. Love means many different things to many people, but a free mind that does not know God will almost never describe is as well as it is written in Corinthians. So already, that is beyond most people's understanding.

Judgment, shows no favor. Don't do the crime if you can't pay the time. Remind them also "If you truly love something, let it go (Free will, no manipulation here), and if it comes back to you then it was meant to be". That is basically how I feel it is with us and God.


How would one feel if someone put a gun to your head and MADE you love them? That would not be love, and God does not do that to us. So even though it may hurt Him, yeah, there are going to be some people who go to Hell.




Ah, I think I need sleep. Not sure if I am making sense. I really should stop replying to threads now LOL.

[Craig]

God is not willing that any should perish but that all come to saving faith through His Son Jesus Christ.
I don't believe God sends anyone to hell. Its a personal choice some make. When we reject Jesus Christ, do we not commit the unpardonable sin?

[Carla]

Hi Craig...

just to clarify the definition of the 'unpardonable sin' vs.the 'world's sin'

The World's sin is 'unbelief'
Jhn 16:8 And when he comes, he will convince the world of its sin, and of God's righteousness, and of the coming judgment.
Jhn 16:9 The world's sin is unbelief in me.

The 'Unpardonable' sin is blasphemy against the 'Holy Spirit'
Mat 12:31 "Every sin or blasphemy can be forgiven--except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which can never be forgiven.
Mat 12:32 Anyone who blasphemes against me, the Son of Man, can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or in the world to come.

Unbelief can be forgiven... We were all unbelievers at one point in time... Until we were 'born again'
There are more forums here regarding the 'Unpardonable sin' against the Holy spirit.

Blessings, Carla

[Winston James Blanke]

Could you expain what Blasphemy aganist The Holy Spirt is?

[anthony]

have u ever heard people get fired own there on terms.by not doing there job coming in late and alot of other things. well i think god is the same way. he just put some people in hell some in heaven. we all have a way that we should live.and a job to do spread the gospel if we love one another and do his will we will have eternal life in his kingdom. but if we hate each other lie cheat steal all things that do not show love in his eyes well u know my opinoin

[Stephen]

Hello Brothers and sisters,
First and foremost i wish all to understand I enter this discussion to spread what I percieve to be truth and love.
It saddens me to hear the common concept of a place that God creates of eternal torment! That is a doctrine that i believe to be false and misrepresenting our creator! Even though I believe God would be just in punishing people forever, he is not that kind of person. We serve a loving God,one who is just and forgiving. That is his nature.
Sin will be dealt with! In all its forms sin will be eradicated. Sin and all satans cohorts will be consumed in the lake of fire at the return of the new jerusalem. Read about it in revelation. God must destroy sin and its influence in order to fulfill his promise of a earth restored for us.
God does not torture humans. We as humans are the ones who do that! This false doctrine misrepresents God and causes much confusion in his family.
Listen for a second to this point of logic.... when you burn a piece of paper up is it not burned up forever? Can it be used anymore? Does it serve any purpose to keep it around any more? What happens to the paper as it is burned? Does it not rise upward in the form of smoke? Does not the smoke trail seem endless? Such is described the lake of fire. this is not a place of eternal torment! It is a place of finality.
To me it seems that if God truly wanted to punish and torture people he would place the wicked in heaven. Would they not be truly miserable there? Would not a holy environment drive them to distraction?
God must by his own law deal with sin in the only way that makes any sense. He must do away with it. and to continue to punish people for wrong doing after we are glorified is not putting the matter to rest. Sin must be done away with in deed and thought.
Actually the word used for hell in the bible often times is the greek word for grave. Literally sheol
.Is the grave hell? I think not! Rather to me it is more a resting place. Scripture tells us that the dead know nothing. I believe that when i am in the grave i will be resting not knowing or feeling anything till my lord comes and ressurects me to glory. Pray that I be in the first ressurection. I would welcome further discourse with any brothers and sisters on this matter if any so wish.
We need to be clear on what it is we believe in and to take a proactive and positive approach to truth. There is indeed power in the truth of scripture. Power to better understand the one whom we serve. We do him little justice by not understanding who and what he is.
His truths all fit together to show a kind and benevolent creator who wishes none to be lost. A creator who has sacrificed so much that we might be again with him!
Another point to consider. What did God tell the first man and woman would happen to them if they disobeyed? Is going to a place of eternal fire and brimstone dying? What was Satan's responce to eve's pointing out to satan that she would die if she partook of the tree of knowlege? Did he not lie by saying "surely thou shalt not die!" Be not confuused, The wages of sin is death! Real death. Not a partial death of floating around in limbo or being in a place of eternal torment.
Gods plan makes perfect sense and is just for everyone. Even I as a sinner must trust in his perfect wisdom and the understanding of his word is worth any effort! Our God is bigger than any torture we might see fit! Praise his holy name! IHL Stephen

[Carla]

Hi Stephen,

Could you please post the scripture to support your comment:

"It saddens me to hear the common concept of a place that God creates of eternal torment! That is a doctrine that i believe to be false and misrepresenting our creator! Even though I believe God would be just in punishing people forever, he is not that kind of person."

Also, I think you must have meant to say that God is a 'Spirit' rather than a person?? Or were you referring to the person as 'Jesus'? Could you please clarify? It is always absolutely essential and important to put scripture along with discussions of doctrine, especially one as important as this!

Thank you....Carla

[Stephen]

Hello Carla,
I begin by telling you that I appreciated your input to Jan's querry. And I appologize for not includind more scriptural references to my comment. The fact is you will find little in scripture thats gives much of an explanation to a place of eternal torment, The place of "hell" is a longstanding idea of what God does to people who do not do as he wishes. I grew up hearing many a fire and brimstone sermon. It always bothered me that a loving God would feel the need to punish people forever, torture them eternaly!
"Be a good little boy, Keep his commandments or you will burn! but remember God loves you." Carla, does that not seem a bit inconsistent?
Much of the problem in understanding "hell" comes from a common misunderstanding of what death really is. This is almost a whole other issue but i see no other way to address it. Many people believe that when you die you either go to heaven or hell. If this is true why does scripture speak of a resurrection on Christs return? 1 Thess. 4:13-18, 1 Cor. 15:51-53. I touched briefly on my earlier comment. Satan has always tried to confuse the issue of death and to then misrepresent God. Gen:3,4. When we die we know nothing. Matt 27:52-53. Ps. 146:4. Death, especially to a christian, is more like a sleep. we go to the grave or "sheol." The spirits of the dead are not floating around somewhere neither are they in heaven or hell. They sleep awaiting the judgment of their creator. There are many scriptural references to this!
I believe the place often mistaken as hell is a literal place. Namely the lake of fire. this is the place of destruction of satan and his followers after they try to take the new jerusalem here on earth. Please read revelation 20.
Lastly, I know my father in heaven to be far more than just a "spirit in the sky." He is a spirit yes but he is also a personage who has feelings similar to us. He loves, feels anger,is jealous but not like we are. He has a personality.He has form, I suspect any he wishes. and he knows some cool magic, like wrapping himself in light or fire! To me Carla he much more than a spirirt. In fact i don't believe our language can describe him properly! As our father he has many names but "God" is more his title. As my creator I see him as a person as well as a spirit. Did not Jesus ask us to pray to him as he did? Do we not pray to him as our father in heaven? I am afraid we will have to await our glorification to better understand his whole nature and manner of being. For now the fact that he is LOVE will suite me just fine. I know that I go against the common grain here but My father torturing souls forever does not fit in with the God I know and trust!
Dear sister in Christ, Thank you for your querrys. I am not a very good typer of essays.
My education is lacking but I hope I have been able to show some sound reasoning for these beliefs.
I trust in the spirit of truth and heaven to help me explain what I believe to be scriptural. Thank you Carla! May the love of God be with you this Christnas season!
Peace Stephen P.S. Please feel free to contact me with any further questions in regard to this huge subject. Also I believe the word of Good interprets itself namely proves itself. Back to Gods nature...."And the word became flesh and dwelt among us"
Merry Christmas Carla!

[LT]

Stephen,

You are confusing what happens to the body with what happens with the spirit. The spirit of the saved depart from the body at death and do indeed go to be with the Lord in a conscious state (Rev. 6:9; 2 Cor. 5:8). The verses you cite only allude to the resurrection when the spirit is united with the new body.

Soul sleep is a false doctrine that is not substantiated in Scripture.

Satan does not try to take the New Jerusalem. The new city appears in Rev. 21 after the final battle in Rev. 20. Satan is not destroyed, but rather tormented forever and ever (Rev. 20:10).

Your view of how one stays out of hell, based on what you were taught at a young age, is unfortunately based on a legalistic view. Salvation is by grace, not works (Eph. 2:8-9). Hell is deserved because of our standing in relation to God because of personal sin. Christ came to redeem us from under the curse of the law and the penalty of guilt due to sin (Rom. 3:23; Rom. 6:23)

Please define what you mean by "he knows cool magic."

Hell is an often taught subject in Scripture and is taught with eternal ramifications:

2PE 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)-- 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment. 10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority.

LK 16:22 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, `Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

MK 9:42 "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where
" `their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched.'

MT 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, `Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, `Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, `You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

MT 13:40 "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

You may also want to check out the following web site:
http://www.gotquestions.org/hell-real-eternal.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/eternal-hell-fair.html

Lord Bless,
LT