When I am witnessing to a Mormon, how do I convince them that God is not flesh?

[Paige Robertson]

I find it interesting what they believe. I know what I believe, and I believe God is spirit. The trinity. But how do I convince that to a mormon when they go directly to certain scriptures in the bible and show me that is says He is flesh. example:How did God have a SON? example:We are made in HIS image. Also they point out that God "knew us" before we came to earth, so we must have all been spirit babies with a heavenly mother." Anyway, help me to help them.

[Dawn Gordon]

http://thewitness.yuku.com/topic/406

now read each piece carefully and notice the parts underlined...

[Dawn Gordon]

Exodus 3

Moses and the Burning Bush

1 Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian, and he led the flock to the far side of the desert and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. 3 So Moses thought, "I will go over and see this strange sight-why the bush does not burn up." 4 When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, "Moses! Moses!"
And Moses said, "Here I am."


Another example

[Dawn Gordon]

9 God heard Manoah, and the angel of God came again to the woman while she was out in the field; but her husband Manoah was not with her. 10 The woman hurried to tell her husband, "He's here! The man who appeared to me the other day!"11 Manoah got up and followed his wife. When he came to the man, he said, "Are you the one who talked to my wife?"
"I am," he said.
12 So Manoah asked him, "When your words are fulfilled, what is to be the rule for the boy's life and work?"
13 The angel of the LORD answered, "Your wife must do all that I have told her. 14 She must not eat anything that comes from the grapevine, nor drink any wine or other fermented drink nor eat anything unclean. She must do everything I have commanded her."
15 Manoah said to the angel of the LORD, "We would like you to stay until we prepare a young goat for you."
16 The angel of the LORD replied, "Even though you detain me, I will not eat any of your food. But if you prepare a burnt offering, offer it to the LORD." (Manoah did not realize that it was the angel of the LORD.)
17 Then Manoah inquired of the angel of the LORD, "What is your name, so that we may honor you when your word comes true?"
18 He replied, "Why do you ask my name? It is beyond understanding. " 19 Then Manoah took a young goat, together with the grain offering, and sacrificed it on a rock to the LORD. And the LORD did an amazing thing while Manoah and his wife watched: 20 As the flame blazed up from the altar toward heaven, the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame. Seeing this, Manoah and his wife fell with their faces to the ground. 21 When the angel of the LORD did not show himself again to Manoah and his wife, Manoah realized that it was the angel of the LORD.
22 "We are doomed to die!" he said to his wife. "We have seen God!"

Judges 13

[Dawn Gordon]

Judges 6

11 The angel of the LORD came and sat down under the oak in Ophrah that belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, where his son Gideon was threshing wheat in a winepress to keep it from the Midianites. 12 When the angel of the LORD appeared to Gideon, he said, "The LORD is with you, mighty warrior." 13 "But sir," Gideon replied, "if the LORD is with us, why has all this happened to us? Where are all his wonders that our fathers told us about when they said, 'Did not the LORD bring us up out of Egypt?' But now the LORD has abandoned us and put us into the hand of Midian."
14 The LORD turned to him and said, "Go in the strength you have and save Israel out of Midian's hand. Am I not sending you?"
15 "But Lord , " Gideon asked, "how can I save Israel? My clan is the weakest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my family."
16 The LORD answered, "I will be with you, and you will strike down all the Midianites together."

Judges 6:22 (New International Version)

22 When Gideon realized that it was the angel of the LORD, he exclaimed, "Ah, Sovereign LORD! I have seen the angel of the LORD face to face!"

[Dawn Gordon]

now no Angel is responded to as AH SOVERIGN LORD, or the LORD

[Dawn Gordon]

so as we can see in exodus the Angel of the Lord is GOD, then in another verse it calls him a MAN? now David wrote in psalms that he will cover you with his pinions, pinions are WINGS,

I also did a full teaching on Joel 2 and revelation 9 which I will post

[Dawn Gordon]

i have not added it my site yet, if you read Joel 2, it is called locust army, notice who is the head of that army? it says THE LORD THUNDERED AT THE HEAD right? well in revelation 9, he is called Abadon, sorry for mispelling, which means destroyer, he told Moses he was the destroyer himself...I did a teaching on it, but looks like I never saved it on the site, have to redo it now BOOHOO

[Carla]

Hello Mai,

The Trinity does indeed exist.. There is an incredible amount of scripture to support the Trinity. For now, I have just one question for you. Please explain who the 'us' and the 'our' is in Genesis 1:26.

The Trinity is the One True God.
Thank you. Carla

[Carla]

Dear Mai,

I believe the following article explains this as much as our finite minds can understand...

Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"

Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to adequately explain it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.

The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun Elohim is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word Elohim and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for God, Elohim, definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17, 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.

The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).

Here is also a video:


I hope this helps to eliminate confusion. Blessings, Carla

[Glenn Robichaux]

“Joseph’s Smiths Inspired Version”

John 1:1_”In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was the Son. And the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.”(This denies the eternal deity of Christ).

New American Standard Bible John 1:1_”
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

John 4:26_”For unto such hath God promised his Spirit. And they who worship him, must worship in spirit and in truth.”
(This denies that God is a Spirit.)

NAS John 4:26 [John 4:24]
“God is spirit; and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Romans 4:5 _”But to him that seeketh not to be justified by the law of works, but believeth on him who justifieth not for righteousness.” (This denies the justification of the ungodly.)

NAS Romans 4:5
“But to the one who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.”

Romans 1:5_”By whom we have received grace and apostleship, through obedience, and faith in his name to preach the gospel among all nation.” (This teaches works salvation.)

NAS Romans 1:5
“Through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the gentiles, for His name’s sake.”

Romans 4:16_”Therefore ye are justified of faith and works through grace, to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed.” (This teaches works salvation and redefines grace.)

NAS Romans 4:16
“For this reason it is by faith, that it might be in accordance with grace, in order that the promise may be certain to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all.”

1John 4:12_”No man hath seen God at anytime, except them who believe.” (This supports the first vision account.)
NAS 1John 4:12
“No one has beheld God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us.”

Acts 13:48_”And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord; and as many as believed were ordained unto eternal life.” (This denies God’s sovereignty in salvation.)
NAS Acts 13:48
“And when the gentiles hear this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.”

With my students in Bible school I taught them an orange smells like…, looks like…, and taste like an Orange!
So it is with God’s word it is clear and not bias and brings complete freedom from bondage of religion.

Psalm 119:105 Your Word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path

John Ankerberg & John Weldon on Mormonism very good Book to help

Hope & Pray this helps
Brother Glenn Robichaux

[jamie allen lindsey]

I ONCE PRAYED WITH TWO YOUNG MORMON MISSIONARY BOYS WHOSE MINDS WERE BLOWN THAT A PERSON COULD ACTUALLY KNOW JESUS FOR THEMSELVES, MANY HAVE TOLD ME THAT THEY AND ME BELIEVE THE SAME THING:THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD AND THROUGH HIM WE ARE SAVED. I ALWAYS SAY "PRAISE GOD ...BUT THEN THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT JOSEPH SMITH EVERY TIME! WHAT HAS HE GOT TO DO WITH SALVATION AFTER WE HAVE JUST AGREED ON WHAT SALVATION IS? I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN CURIOUS WHY THE BOOK OF MORMON IS WRITTEN IN ELIZABETHAN ENGLISH WHEN JOSEPH SMITH WAS GIVEN THE GOLD TABLETS BY AN ANGEL ,WHICH THE MORMON BIBLE WAS WRITTEN ON, IN THE EARLY 1800S? DOES GOD SPEAK ELIZABETHAN ENGLISH? NOT TRYING TO BE A SMARTY,REALLY JUST WANT TO KNOW WHY? JAMIE