Calvanism. How do I tell if a Christian church is teaching Calvanism? and should I not attend it? What is the biggest problem with Calvanism?

[Paige Robertson]

I have alot of questions and would just like my friends here to inform me more about "Calvanism". I had a few of my friends at church tell me to not try to attend this church or that church because they "push calvanism". Please tell me more about Calvanism? I dont want to learn anything against the Word of God.

[CHRIS NOEL]

dear Micheal.
your letter on the holy spirit was very timely and bless god in the name of jesus for letter. lately i have had visions of praying in my sleep only to find out during day time that i was praying loudly and every body in the house was listening . i would like you to help me find someone to help me inter full time ministry i am black African living in Zambia and suffering from a chronic disease. may the peace of the lord be with you in the name of jesus christ of Nazareth.

[Pieter]

Well done Ron!

While I commend everyone in this discussion with their Christlike attitudes in handling their differences, I have to agree with you.

I have once heard it told, and tend to believe it, that God's election and man's free will runs parallel like the rails on a railroad track. It is one of the many paradoxes of the Christian faith. Arguing about these are bound to bring conflict and not answers.

Paige, you are on the right track. Simple faith will often get you much further than complex theologies. Let us focus on the Tree of Life and avoid the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It is your relationship with Jesus that counts, first and foremost, not your theological expertise.

[Scribe D'Nucov]

A guideline that I have learned to use in matters of debate is the maxim attributed to Augustine:

IN ESSENTIALS UNITY, IN NON-ESSENTIALS LIBERTY, IN ALL THINGS CHARITY.

We ought always seek to understand Christ and the truth of God. We ought never do so with condemnation, which Jesus himself would reject.

As I said before, my position on the matter is that each position is correct in what it affirms and incorrect in what it denies. Each position attempts to use scripture to validate it's truth; therefore neither position can be true in denial of the other.

For instance, when we see the sovereignty of God - we must see it as he himself sees it: he asserts sovereignty in some matters (such as the final outcome of all things) and yet yields it in other matters, such as when Jesus says "he that COMES to me, I will in no wise cast out." which indicates that he abdicates the sovereignty of the heart.

To stand on one camp or the other, in my mind, is to look at the scriptures with a hand over one eye. I choose to see with both eyes open. Calvin chooses only to see God's point of view. Arminius chooses more to see man's point of view. There are two points in the matter, and the way I read Jesus, he sees both points of view. He is, after all, the Man in whom "dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily". You might try getting your mind around that, before deciding that all C's or A's are heretics. If God can unite the finite and the infinite into a single man, then matters of human salvation, election and calling are small concerns.

Why should we divide? We ought to do what Jesus says. Nothing more and nothing less.

- Scribe

[Bob B]

I never thought about it as one with Gods perspective and the other from mans perspective. I refuse to be dogmatic about these issues now. Over the years I have never been able to embrace one or the other in all honesty because as Scribe has stated; To stand on one camp or the other, in my mind, is to look at the scriptures with a hand over one eye. We will put God into a box if we do that and could miss out on coming to know and understand God in the way He intends us to.

[Jayashree]

hi Paige
I understood every word of what yousay. Because I am a Hindu , who became a catholic and then got saved. I am so upset by all the 'stuff' I hear about the various denominations and the abominations and the other things. It scares me and robs me of the joy that I felt as you described when I was first saved. Why don't we all just focus on loving the Lord and seeking to be holy ( big enough a job as it is) rather than examining every church and house of worship? It seems we have so little time for Him .
Jay

[Bob B]

Jayashree, I san see that the last thing you want to hear about is dealing with doctrinal stuff because of your back ground. But even in the New Testiment we see these kind of disputes, one time Paul rebuked Peter for falling back into jewish traditions concurning the Gentiles. The messages to the 7 churches in Revelation is another example how God speaks to problems that arose.
The Church is like a garden where sometimes the weeds have to be pulled so the garden can grow and be fruitful. We don't want to get into endless debates either which as you say can steal all out time For Him.

[Jayashree]

Thanks Bob
I needed that word of affirmation. You are right that the weeds have to be pulled out. But who knows which is one and which isn't except the One? Can't we read the Word and , seek Him and edify one another only? And leave to teh Master of the garden to weed oout the tares? I know I am probably being simplistic and I recognise a lot of teh discussion comes froma real desire to help. But I wish you knew the way the precious few churches in India are battling one another and the way God's people are so jealous for their own denomination. what kind of testimony are we giving to my hindu brethern? How is the Lord of the divded to give the peace of his love through us to a people so deluded? My heart breaks for the love of them. My heart for our weakness and small vision. The field is white; we debate over the tools. Lord, have mercy on us.
Jayashree

[Bob B]

You are right when someone, or a group of people, or a church begin to act like or worse than unbelievers it is heart breaking. God said that if we are his children He will disipline us, and we see it all throught out history how God has done this. My pastor has been teaching lately from 1Cor. 13. If we are the people of God, then this scripture should be a good discription of how people should be relating one to another. I can tell it is out of your love for the Lord that you are so frustrated with all this turmiol among the people of God in India. You are not alone, here in the U.S. we deal with the same thing and it a bad reflection to a lost world in need of a savior. It has to start with each one of us becoming fully devoted followers of Christ and praying that other believers will follow our example.

[Jayashree]

Right Bob, Thats right. We need to pray. Please continue to mail me. It helps to hear from His people. And to know we are not alone. Now, I have a question for all my brothers and sisters out there. Is the Baptism in the Holy Spirit always accompanied by the gift of the Tongues? Is it right to ask the Lord for this gift? How important is it to live a victorious christian life?
Jayashree

[FERNANDO D IMPANG,JR]

Calvinism is not calvanism/ Testimony:

Jesus alone paid the debt of our sin; there is no other Savior!
In him the Father chose those whom he would save.
His electing love sustains our hope:
God's grace is free to save sinners
who offer nothing but their need for mercy.

[FERNANDO D IMPANG,JR]

As our substitute Jesus suffered all his years on earth,
especially in the horrible torture of the cross.
He carried God's judgment on our sin;
his sacrifice removes our guilt.
He walked out of the grave, the Lord of life!
He conquered sin and death.
We are set right with God, we are given new life,
and called to walk with him in freedom from sin's dominion

[FERNANDO D IMPANG,JR]

1. Our hope for a new earth is not tied to what humans can do,
for we believe that one day every challenge to God's rule
and every resistance to his will shall be crushed.
2. Then his kingdom shall come fully, and our Lord shall rule forever.
With the whole creation we wait for the purifying fire of judgment.
For then we will see the Lord face to face.
1. He will heal our hurts, end our wars, and make the crooked straight.
Then we will join in the new song to the Lamb without blemish
who made us a kingdom and priests.
2. God will be all in all,
righteousness and peace will flourish,
everything will be made new,
All: and every eye will see at last that our world belongs to God!
Hallelujah! Come, Lord Jesus.