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The Testimony of Joseph Smith
Hi guys,
I started reading the “Book of Mormon” today as a research project in view of writing a critique. I commenced by reading the testimony of the False Prophet Joseph Smith. I will write a more detailed review, possibly as a blog, later on – but let me offer one or two thoughts on Smith’s testimony.
When judging the Book of Mormon as a true document, written with a sincere Godly intent, one must look at the verifiability, testability, and ultimate falsifiability of the story. This is standard deductive reasoning. The resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, for instance, was testified to by literally hundreds of witnesses – including many adverse witnesses which are well documented. Many of such men willingly gave their lives for the sake of the testimony they held in this regard.
The entire so-called “supplement” of the Book of Mormon lacks such verifiability, or falsifiability. It is predicated on the testimony of one man. When reading the opening pages of the book I was looking at three options:
1.The Book of Mormon is indeed inspired.
2.Joseph Smith was himself deceived by the Devil (possibly in the manner of 2 Corinthians 11:14, which speaks of Satan masquerading as an angel of light) but was writing with honest intent.
3.Joseph Smith was outright lying and deceiving his readers, seeking somehow personal gain.
The remarks of Joseph Smith in the book are riddled with hall marks of outright deception. It seems as though he is deliberately setting up a non-Falsifiable scenario.
Consider the following sentence:
“Again, he told me, that when I got those plates of which he had spoken—for the time that they should be obtained was not yet fulfilled—I should not show them to any person; neither the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim; only to those to whom I should be commanded to show them; if I did I should be destroyed.”
Fancy that – a non-verifiable hypothesis. The entire integrity of the testimony hinges on the account of this one man, with not one single external source to verify his claims.
And what of this remark taken from the introduction?
“We invite all men everywhere to read the Book of Mormon, to ponder in their hearts the message it contains, and then to ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ if the book is true. Those who pursue this course and ask in faith will gain a testimony of its truth and divinity by the power of the Holy Ghost.”
This becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, does it not? For one to pray earnestly that they will be shown that this book is indeed true, they would have to have first decided in their own minds that it was true anyway.
Another thing I noticed is that he gives far too much detail – either he has an exceptionally good recollection and observation skills or he is making it up as he goes along.
Both failed and deliberately vague prophecy also does not help his cause.
“...he informed me of great judgments which were coming upon the earth, with great desolations by famine, sword, and pestilence; and that these grievous judgments would come on the earth in this generation.”
I am not sure which world events he is referring to. There is definitely such desolations as those stated above, but history does not record a dramatic increase in such at the time predicted. If he is indeed lying, then he is either keeping his prophecy deliberately vague, or he knows that he will be dead before the people discover the prophecy was wrong and so was seeking personal gain at the time of writing.
Has anyone else read any of the Book of Mormon? What impressions did others get?
God bless,
Jonathan
I started reading the “Book of Mormon” today as a research project in view of writing a critique. I commenced by reading the testimony of the False Prophet Joseph Smith. I will write a more detailed review, possibly as a blog, later on – but let me offer one or two thoughts on Smith’s testimony.
When judging the Book of Mormon as a true document, written with a sincere Godly intent, one must look at the verifiability, testability, and ultimate falsifiability of the story. This is standard deductive reasoning. The resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, for instance, was testified to by literally hundreds of witnesses – including many adverse witnesses which are well documented. Many of such men willingly gave their lives for the sake of the testimony they held in this regard.
The entire so-called “supplement” of the Book of Mormon lacks such verifiability, or falsifiability. It is predicated on the testimony of one man. When reading the opening pages of the book I was looking at three options:
1.The Book of Mormon is indeed inspired.
2.Joseph Smith was himself deceived by the Devil (possibly in the manner of 2 Corinthians 11:14, which speaks of Satan masquerading as an angel of light) but was writing with honest intent.
3.Joseph Smith was outright lying and deceiving his readers, seeking somehow personal gain.
The remarks of Joseph Smith in the book are riddled with hall marks of outright deception. It seems as though he is deliberately setting up a non-Falsifiable scenario.
Consider the following sentence:
“Again, he told me, that when I got those plates of which he had spoken—for the time that they should be obtained was not yet fulfilled—I should not show them to any person; neither the breastplate with the Urim and Thummim; only to those to whom I should be commanded to show them; if I did I should be destroyed.”
Fancy that – a non-verifiable hypothesis. The entire integrity of the testimony hinges on the account of this one man, with not one single external source to verify his claims.
And what of this remark taken from the introduction?
“We invite all men everywhere to read the Book of Mormon, to ponder in their hearts the message it contains, and then to ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ if the book is true. Those who pursue this course and ask in faith will gain a testimony of its truth and divinity by the power of the Holy Ghost.”
This becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, does it not? For one to pray earnestly that they will be shown that this book is indeed true, they would have to have first decided in their own minds that it was true anyway.
Another thing I noticed is that he gives far too much detail – either he has an exceptionally good recollection and observation skills or he is making it up as he goes along.
Both failed and deliberately vague prophecy also does not help his cause.
“...he informed me of great judgments which were coming upon the earth, with great desolations by famine, sword, and pestilence; and that these grievous judgments would come on the earth in this generation.”
I am not sure which world events he is referring to. There is definitely such desolations as those stated above, but history does not record a dramatic increase in such at the time predicted. If he is indeed lying, then he is either keeping his prophecy deliberately vague, or he knows that he will be dead before the people discover the prophecy was wrong and so was seeking personal gain at the time of writing.
Has anyone else read any of the Book of Mormon? What impressions did others get?
God bless,
Jonathan
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by christelle on -
Jonathan..please be careful reading that kind of stuff.
As far as the validity of the book of mormon? Joseph Smith was arrested over 30 times prior to finding the book. His charge? Being a con artist and swindler. The book of mormon as I understand it also goes against things we hold to be true from the Bbile. ie: The Bile teaches us that to aspire to be "godlike" is the very sin that had lucifer cast from heaven. The Bible also teaches that we are saved not by works but by faith. Yet the Book of Mormon teaches that if ones lives a good enough life and has enough children...one will become a god of his own planet in the afterlife. Also, the Bible teaches us of the holy trinity and refers to satan as lucifer, the angel of the morning star. The Bible is clear in the difference between the Trinity, the angels, and humans. Yet the Book of Mormon would have us believe that Jesus and lucifer were brothers. Again..this goes directly against what the Holy Bible teaches us to be true.
If you read the last three verses of revelations the Bible tells you as well. "Let no man add to the word of God lest his name be added to the book of death. Let no man take away from the word of God, lest his name be taken away from the book of life." If I'm a little off...I'm quoting from memory..so please forgive. These words were written well over a thousand years before the book of morman was found, so we can safely assume that if the Bible was not directly referring to the book of morman, that the book of morman is at least included i nteh catagory of "adding to the word of God", especially since so much of its teaching goes against the Bible.
On a sadder note, in the current US while Southern Baptist is still the largest church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS for short) is the fastest growing religion. Many believe this is because they preach a unified family so heavily and they give one a sense of belonging. Again unbiblical. While it would be a wonderful world if every family were strongly united and I do beleive it would be pleasing to God...it is a fairy tale, Jesus warned "I come to pit Father against son and brother against brother".
My "impression" of the Book of Mormon" is that this is not one of those cases where we may define something differently that is not a salvation issue. My impression is that there is doctrine taught in the Book of Mormon that is very dangerous to ones salvation.
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan McLatchie on -
I see no harm in reading the primary text of worldviews outside of the Biblical one. For instance, I recently read "Science&Health with Key to the Scriptures" (the Christian Science textbook). I do so for research purposes only, so that I may be able to critically analyse the contents from an expressly Biblical focus and discuss the issues with the proponents thereof. Also, it allows me to say to those adhering to such doctrines that I have actually read their book and so know what they stand for.
Thoughts?
Jonathan
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Permalink Reply by christelle on
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I don't think it is "wrong" just dangerous. Use much much caution when researching different religions lest one tempt you
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Permalink Reply by christelle on
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Jonanthan, watchman jsut brought up what I briefly touched on in chat.
Be very careful that your studies do not influence someone who may not be as steady as you to study externally as well. Where it might be ok for you, it may mean their soul to them.
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Permalink Reply by Ramona P. Jacobsz on -
Dearest Brother Watchman
Thank you for your comment. It is very true that our young ones can go astray... The book you recommend MY UTMOST FOR HIS HIGHEST is great... (Pity the young folk do not read more these days) too much TV and other distractions. Hence my concern for them and my prayers for them - the future of each nation!
I am an old lady and I remember admiring America (especially) for their patriotism ONE NATION UNDER GOD.. And now schools are no longer allowed to speak freely of religion. I SAW AN AMERICAN CHURCH BANNER - SO IMPRESSIVE "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 9-11-2001 PSALMS 22:27-28 "ALL THE ENDS OF THE WORLD SHALL REMEMBER AND TURN UNTO THE LORD, AND ALL THE KINDREDS OF THE NATIONS SHALL WORSHIP BEFORE THEE. FOR THE KINGDOM IS THE LORD'S: AND HE IS THE GOVERNOR AMONG THE NATIONS."
LEADERS LIKE ABRAHAM LINCOLN WERE SO PRECIOUS (GOD FEARING MEN): HE SAID " "I HAVE BEEN DRIVEN TO MY KNEES BY THE OVERWHELMING CONVICTION THAT I HAD NOWHERE ELSE TO GO."
OSWALD CHAMBERS DIED ABOUT 90 YEARS AGO BUT WILL ALWAYS BE REMEMBERED AND TREASURED:
"WE HAVE TO RECOGNISE THAT SIN IS A FACT OF LIFE, NOT JUST A SHORTCOMING. SIN IS BLATANT MUTINY AGAINST GOD, AND EITHER SIN OR GOD MUST DIE IN MY LIFE".... "IF GOD LIVES IN ME, SIN IN ME WILL BE KILLED. ... "SIN WILL KILL THE LIFE OF GOD IN US". "WE MUST MENTALLY BRING OURSELVES TO TERMS WITH THIS FACT OF SIN. IT IS THE ONLY EXPLANATION WHY JESUS CHRIST CAME TO EARTH, AND IT IS THE EXPLANATION OF THE GRIEF AND SORROW OF LIFE."....
JUST IMAGINE IF OUR YOUNG PEOPLE WOULD START READING AGAIN... HOW MUCH THERE IS TO LEARN FROM GREAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALREADY ENTERED THE GATES OF HEAVEN!
SAMUEL RUTHERFORD SAID : "OUR LITTLE TIME OF SUFFERING IS NOT WORTHY OF OUR FIRST NIGHT'S WELCOME TO HEAVEN"...
DEAR BROTHER WATCHMAN THANK YOU FOR YOUR ANSWER" STUDY THE GREAT MEN OF GOD AND YOU WILL KNOW HOW TO REFUTE ANYTHING THAT COMES AROUND TO US THAT IS CONTRARY TO THE GOSPEL"
OUR BIBLE IS THE TRUE GOSPEL, THE WAY AND THE TRUTH...
GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR LOVED ONES
RAMONA P.
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Permalink Reply by Bob B on -
This presentation puts the Bible and the Book of Mormon to the same tests. History, archaeology, textual criticism, and other disciplines combine to shed light on what is true...and what is false.
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Permalink Reply by christelle on
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Bob
I have not gotten a chance to watch all of this yet..but I am gonna guess it is in favor of the Bible. so far, I have enjoyed it.
Thank you
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan McLatchie on
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A real eye-opener, Bob - thanks for this video.
Jonathan
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Permalink Reply by Ramona P. Jacobsz on
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Dear Brother Bob
Many thanks for this very informative video... I was glued to my PC. My daughter,who is married to a pastor's best friend was a Mormon. I thank God that my late husband was very clued up regarding this "false" prophecy and we were steadfast Christ followers. This did not affect Mari adversely but we received Kim into our home in a very loving way. I must confess that Mari was more clued up (at even a very young age) than I. Being a person who loves people I do not easily see the harm that they could do...
At least I am now convinced too that this is really far fetched and false. We serve our Saviour Jesus Christ and we have concrete proof that He is the Living Son of God - our sole salvation...
Many thanks for the new "vision"..
Love in Christ
Ramona P.
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Permalink Reply by LT on -
Key question in ascertaining if a group is Christian or not is to ask them their beliefs regarding Jesus. Thier beliefs regarding Jesus are totally wrong and therefore they are not Christian and therefore are not brothers in Christ. Below is a summary of some of their beliefs. Take note that about 25 -30 years ago they went through their terminology and reworded everything in order to appear to be Christian and therefore lure weak Christians and seekers away to their religion.
Key Person: Joseph Smith Jr. (1805-1844), founded the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1830 in New York. Headquarters in Salt Lake City.
Key Writings: The Book of Mormon; Doctrine and Covenants; Pearl of Great Price; the Bible (KJV only or Smith's "Inspired Version"); authoritative teachings of Mormon prophets and other LDS "general authorities."
Who is God?: God the Father was once a man, but became God. He has a physical body, as does his wife (Heavenly Mother). There is no Trinity. The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three separate gods. Worthy men may one day become gods themselves.
Who is Jesus?: Jesus is a separate god from the Father (Elohim). He was created as a spirit child by the Father and Mother in Heaven, and is the "elder brother" of all men and spirit beings. His body was created through sexual union between Elohim and Mary. Jesus was married. His death on the cross does not provide full atonement for all sin, but does provide everyone with resurrection.
Who is the Holy Spirit: "Holy Ghost" is a god separate from the Father and the Son. "Holy spirit" is a fluid-like substance by which the Father exercises his influence.
How to Be Saved: Resurrected by grace, but saved (exalted to godhood) by works, including faithfulness to church leaders, Mormon baptism, tithing, ordination, marriage, and secret temple rituals. No eternal life without Mormon membership.
What Happens After Death? Eventually nearly everyone gores to one of the three separate heavenly "kingdoms," with some achieving godhood. Apostates and murderers go to "outer darkness."
Other Beliefs and Practices: No alcohol, tobacco, coffee, or tea. Baptism on behalf of the dead. Two year missionary commitment encouraged. Door-to-door proselytizing,. Secret temple rituals available only to members in good standing. Extensive social network. People of African ancestry not granted full access to Mormon priesthood and privileges until 1978
My view and input,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on -
Two days ago, we had a storm that turned the streets of a city into rivers.
I stood back as I watched the destruction. But what really amazed me was the fact that clouds could carry so much water and retain it. I am equally amazed that so many intelligent people can fall into line with a book that is full of deception and obvious lies, yet believe it. Particularly when history has exposed the author to be a false prophet.
Johnathan, I understand the concern others are placing at your feet. But how shall they (Mormons) know the truth unless they be told? How can they be effectively be told, unless the Messenger wishing to help them, knows all there is to know?
But consider the following.
There are many books out there that examine the LSD theology from all angles. Your wish to write a critique on the LSD doctrines and faith, would I believe, be very fulfilling for yourself. Yet, in view of all the literature already available, rather than touch on doctrine etc. Why not undertake the project from another angle. The angle being, how is it possible that people are so easily deceived, when there is so much deception and false statements that has already been exposed in criminal record books and history? How is it possible that they still accept it as a genuine revelation?
There are enough reasons for folk to continue in any cult. Be it doctrinal threats, rewards, loss of their position of authority, etc. etc.
An article of this nature would account for and cover most of the cults and to my mind a subject that has never really been covered in full.
Possibly a worthier cause than just another expose of a single faith that already exists?
These are my thoughts and in no way would want you to change your direction, particularly if your need is to thoroughly examine this particular belief and perhaps find something that no one else has. I just felt that at this early stage of your study, a change of direction, may be worth considering.
Your Brother - Ron
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan McLatchie on
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Mark - I tend to read those kind of books online, rather than in the form of a hard copy. Most religious texts are available free on the internet.
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